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    <title>American Whitewater Forums</title>
    <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/index</link>
    <description><![CDATA[]]></description>
    <language>EN</language>
    <pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:53:59 -0500</pubDate>
    <lastBuildDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:53:59 -0500</lastBuildDate>
    <category>American Whitewater Forums</category>
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    <item>
      <title>[StreamTeam Forum] Re: &quot;may vary with level&quot;???</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,17463,17497/#msg-17497</link>
      <author>matt</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Skip,

I think it's just a boilerplate disclaimer.
True, you specify a range of difficulties based on level; so do I, and so do many obsessive STers.
However, we don't have an obsessive STer covering every reach. So we need the disclaimer in there, so that surfers who're too naive to recognize that opinions are just opinions don't get stoopid enough to think that everything in here is gospel.
Even guidebooks have similar disclaimers.]]></description>
      <category>StreamTeam Forum</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,17463,17497/#msg-17497</guid>
      <pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:53:59 -0500</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[StreamTeam Forum] &quot;may vary with level&quot;???</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,17463,17463/#msg-17463</link>
      <author>skipmorris</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Ok, maybe I haven't been paying attention.  But at what point did we start adding the disclaimer &quot;may vary with level&quot; to the difficulty rating for each river?

Personally, I really don't like this.

For rivers whose difficulty does very with level, I've always indicated it by specifying a range of difficulty levels.

And for many rivers, as long as the flow is within the customary, usual range the difficulty might not change.  I think it's universally understood that if a river has unusually low or high water volume it changes the difficulty.

Why did we do this?  Did the lawyers suddenly get involved?

/Skip]]></description>
      <category>StreamTeam Forum</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,17463,17463/#msg-17463</guid>
      <pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 12:08:57 -0500</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[StreamTeam Forum] Link Checker?</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,17347,17347/#msg-17347</link>
      <author>rob</author>
      <description><![CDATA[I am curious if there is any good 'link checker' which can be used on the entirety of the river pages (or, for that matter, the entire AW website).

I am aware that (here in the 'upper Midwest') a significant number of reaches have old, dead links, due to a couple of (external) websites which no longer exist. (Specifically, Tom O'Keefe used to have a 'paddleguides.com' website, which he has now apparently 'abandoned', and I used to have my 'MRI' (Midwest River Inventory), which geocities hosted free for nearly nine years, but as of last month no longer does.) In addition, a few other websites which were linked to (for info or photos) have either 'gone away' or have been restructured so that links no longer work. Even internally, AW did a considerable restructuring of its website and files a good while back, causing changes to addresses (URLs) for rivers/reaches, archived articles, photos, and so on. (In fairness, SOME of the old links manage to 'transfer' or 'forward' to the new structure, but many do not!)

The situation cited (for the upper Midwest) is hardly unique. I have no doubt that there are any number of reaches throughout the database containing links which the StreamTeamers have not checked since they did their original write-up. And, even as conscientious (dedicated, anal-retentive) as I am, it is still a daunting task to parse every reach (not only those I am 'on record' as StreamTeamer for, but also, (to be thorough, throughout my region) those with no StreamTeamer on record), manually checking each link and (manually) fixing them.

So . . . I am wondering if there is any convenient way that one of our tech-geeks could run a 'link checker' (on the entirety of the river pages), and create a report of broken links. It would be awesome (though maybe asking an awful lot) if it could list (and be sorted by) state, reach number and/or name, and each failed (dead) link. If such a report could be created, perhaps it could be available in some online repository (accessible only to StreamTeamers) for them to check (and then fix) their reaches. More awesome still (again, maybe asking an awful lot) would be if broken/dead 'internal links' (links to AW articles, other reaches, photos, etc) could be updated 'automatically' to reflect the new URLs (now, and any time in the future if/when internal file structures and URLs for AW change).

Broken links just seem a bit frustrating, and end up reflecting poorly upon the owners/maintainers of the website. Concurrent with the decision to have a website should be the responsibility and dedication to ensuring its overall integrity, part of which is having no dead links. Running a link checker 'periodically' needs to be part of that discipline. (Please, all, take no offense where no offense was intended. Not meaning to be a crochety old fart, not meaning to rant or preach or get on anyone's case, just (as ever) making a statement, explaining a position, and hopefully providing constructive/instructive comment.)

(This has also been logged as a new ticket in the 'bug tracker'.)]]></description>
      <category>StreamTeam Forum</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,17347,17347/#msg-17347</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 07:10:47 -0500</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[General American Whitewater] Re: looking to start or attend rolling pratice sesions in canton, oh</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/10,17278,17285/#msg-17285</link>
      <author>matt</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Check out the [url=http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Affiliate/view/#OH]Keel-haulers Canoe Club[/url].

Specifically, check out [url=http://keelhauler.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=739&amp;sid=18c189b3c84d9571750a68d7497c141e]this thread in their massage board[/url]. Looks like it might be just what you're looking for.

If the times for their Canton roll sessions don't work for you, you might find their other roll sessions in NE Ohoho to your liking.]]></description>
      <category>General American Whitewater</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/10,17278,17285/#msg-17285</guid>
      <pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 05:36:47 -0500</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[General American Whitewater] looking to start or attend rolling pratice sesions in canton, oh</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/10,17278,17278/#msg-17278</link>
      <author>johnmerrin1</author>
      <description><![CDATA[hey was looking to attend or to start up some rolling classes in canton, oh area . anyone with info  or interested?]]></description>
      <category>General American Whitewater</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/10,17278,17278/#msg-17278</guid>
      <pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 14:17:54 -0500</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[StreamTeam Forum] Re: Can anyone fix this guy's problem?</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,17131,17186/#msg-17186</link>
      <author>pmartzen</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Matt figured out the problem and got him reinstated.    Mark was accidentally added to a list of defunct stream teamers who have not logged in for a long time.]]></description>
      <category>StreamTeam Forum</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,17131,17186/#msg-17186</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 14:22:44 -0500</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[StreamTeam Forum] Re: Upload multiple photos using 1 report</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,15447,17181/#msg-17181</link>
      <author>pmartzen</author>
      <description><![CDATA[I have added major edits to the original post, to clarify and make it more explicit.    

You can access your older reports and those of anybody else in several ways.  
Reports for a specific river are always listed at the bottom of the flow tab.   
Every photo will have a link to a report.   There will be small buttons under the thumbnail or on the photo's detail page.    Unfortunately, many people are still uploading multiple photos as individual reports rather than linking them in one report.
The most recent reports are also accessible via the AW menu.   Look under: River info/recent river reports.  
http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Report/list-recent/region/all/   
There is also a button to access recent reports on the top of the national river map page.   AW menu:  River info/national river database.

A nice benefit of uploading multiple photos in one report is that all of your photos from a trip will be organized in the order that you uploaded them rather than in reverse order.  So if you upload your photos in order from the beginning of your trip to the end of your trip, that is the way they will be displayed in that report.  Here are some examples.
http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Report/detail/id/537376/
http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Report/detail/id/477046/
http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Report/detail/id/568360/
http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Report/detail/id/552494/]]></description>
      <category>StreamTeam Forum</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,15447,17181/#msg-17181</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 13:23:25 -0500</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[StreamTeam Forum] Re: Can anyone fix this guy's problem?</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,17131,17158/#msg-17158</link>
      <author>pmartzen</author>
      <description><![CDATA[I have started to look into it as best I can.  I was able to reassign him to the Doe gorge section without problems and the email that he can't change to is the one presently listed in his profile.   So, despite the error messages, the email was changed to what he wants.  

 I have emailed him but have not heard back yet.    I want to hear back from him, document what happened in case it happens again to him or somebody else, and step through problem solving.   I cc'd Matt, but I think he is off and away right now.   

Some of these bugs can seem pretty random, but hopefully we can get some idea of what instigated it.]]></description>
      <category>StreamTeam Forum</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,17131,17158/#msg-17158</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 03:13:46 -0500</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[StreamTeam Forum] Can anyone fix this guy's problem?</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,17131,17131/#msg-17131</link>
      <author>skipmorris</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Received this via AW message.  Can anyone fix this guys problem?

/Skip
----------------------------------------------
Major Streamkeeper problems - please help
From: mtnsport
To: wildblue / skipmorris / Dag / dsteindorf / okeefe / pmartzen / rob / KenV / mwlcrx / KHCC-NY / stpcrkr
Date: 11/04/2009 02:00PM

I am searching for the Southeast Regional Streamkeeper or ANYONE who can help. I cannot tell who the SE regional streamkeeper is from the Regional SK directory.

I am having issues with the reaches I manage. Primarily, I cannot get to them to manage. I tried to post on this in the SK forum but was not allowed permission to post. I cannot locate my name in the directory of streamkeepers. Apparently I have been removed from all the reaches I've previously been managing, some for more than 5 years. What gives? I am a current AW member and have been for many, many years. Why was I removed from managing these reaches?

Until recently I was the streamkeeper in TN for the Doe River Gorge, Nolichucky Gorge, lower Nolichucky, and South Fork Holston. In North Carolina, I managed the Watauga Gorge and Nolichucky Gorge.

If this has been an error and these reaches have not already been reassigned to new stream keepers, I would like to again be their streamkeeper; otherwise I would like to know what the issue is.

p.s. please respond to THIS email --&gt; mtnsport70@verizon.net It is not listed as my email in my Email Settings and I cannot change it, everytime I try it leads to an error page. Do NOT respond to my old mtnsport70@chartertn.net address please.

Thank you,

Mark Stover]]></description>
      <category>StreamTeam Forum</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,17131,17131/#msg-17131</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 13:57:52 -0500</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[StreamTeam Forum] Re: Bugs: Reach length dissappearing --  Rapids alignment</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,16553,17055/#msg-17055</link>
      <author>pmartzen</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Other reach examples with misaligned rapid photos:
http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/River/detail/id/1049/#tab-rapids
http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/River/detail/id/3101/#tab-rapids
http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/River/detail/id/3446/#tab-rapids
http://americanwhitewater.org/content/River_detail_id_114_#tab-rapids]]></description>
      <category>StreamTeam Forum</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,16553,17055/#msg-17055</guid>
      <pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 11:55:39 -0500</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[StreamTeam Forum] Re: Bugs: Reach length dissappearing --  Rapids alignment</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,16553,17013/#msg-17013</link>
      <author>rob</author>
      <description><![CDATA[This one was written up as a trouble ticket: http://www.americanwhitewater.org/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/ticket/771

Two examples were listed in that ticket:
http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/River/detail/id/2750/#tab-rapids

http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/River/detail/id/2378/#tab-rapids]]></description>
      <category>StreamTeam Forum</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,16553,17013/#msg-17013</guid>
      <pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:15:25 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[StreamTeam Forum] Re: Questions about gauge list</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,15118,16983/#msg-16983</link>
      <author>rgroth</author>
      <description><![CDATA[I think this deals with efficiency. I am getting the real-time gauge info from a single page that only lists stage. To get flow I need to hit several gauges. I can come up with a parallel way to get flow on specified gauges, but probably can't get all cdec gauges that way.]]></description>
      <category>StreamTeam Forum</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,15118,16983/#msg-16983</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:00:06 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[StreamTeam Forum] Re: Adding USGS gage</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,16494,16982/#msg-16982</link>
      <author>rgroth</author>
      <description><![CDATA[They automatically get added now!

Ryan]]></description>
      <category>StreamTeam Forum</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,16494,16982/#msg-16982</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 17:56:35 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[StreamTeam Forum] Re: Bugs: Reach length dissappearing --  Rapids alignment</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,16553,16981/#msg-16981</link>
      <author>rgroth</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Fixed the first problem dealing with reach length. 

Can someone guide me to an example of the second?

Ryan]]></description>
      <category>StreamTeam Forum</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,16553,16981/#msg-16981</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 17:56:02 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[General Stewardship Discussion] Re: Recreational releases and flow studies</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/16,16663,16833/#msg-16833</link>
      <author>jasonrainey</author>
      <description><![CDATA[The South Yuba River Citizens League (SYRCL) has been working collaboratively with AW in the context of the re-licensings of the Yuba and Bear Rivers for over 4 years, as well as statewide through AW's leadership in the California Hydropower Reform Coalition.  SYRCL considers AW a valued partner and AW’s contributions in these relicensings have only served to advance SYRCL’s re-licensing goals for improved aquatic habitat and restored anadromy in the Middle and South Yuba Rivers.  It's a great thing that the two organizations share these broader stewardship goals. AW has recognized and supported from the beginning of the Yuba relicesnings that artificial pulse flows for strictly recreational purposes are not feasible in the Yuba system.  AW has dug in deep,  become expert in the operations of the Yuba system and I'm confident that we'll reach our shared--and ambitious--goals regarding salmon restoration and improved cold water habitat.  

When we're celebrating that victory for the Yuba, AW will enjoy a large measure of the credit.  And, I hope and trust that we'll also be celebrating with a greater number of ideal whitewater days--certainly an interest of many of our members, too--by fine-tuning some seasonal flows, with kayaks going down while the spring-run Chinook are heading up.

Jason Rainey
SYRCL Executive Director]]></description>
      <category>General Stewardship Discussion</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/16,16663,16833/#msg-16833</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:14:19 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[General Stewardship Discussion] Re: Recreational releases and flow studies</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/16,16663,16775/#msg-16775</link>
      <author>pmartzen</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Bob Center sent some graphs of reservoir elevations on Canyon creek that clearly show the reservoirs being drained every year during late summer and fall, for hydropower generation.   That appears to be the purpose of these reservoirs (French Lake, Foucherie and Sawmill), to hold water through the summer then release it in the fall.   There are no diversions in these reservoirs, so the water is released into Canyon Creek, down to Bowman reservoir from where it is diverted for power production.   In an earlier message I stated that there were no releases in 2009.   That was incorrect.   There were the usual fall releases, but they were not recreational releases except that boaters were able to utilize them.  

Fall releases into Fordyce Creek are for exactly the same purpose.   

Boater use of these flows is opportunistic.  Once boaters found out about the flows and about these creeks, they started utilizing them.   

Weekend recreational releases on the NF Feather are for recreation, but the frog egg issue which Jeffrey pointed out, drastically changed the way the releases are done.

Closer to my area, around Fresno, Ca there have been very high fall flows on several rivers.  Most due to a big rainstorm, but not all.  

The Kaweah hit 21,000 cfs which is about 3 to 4 times an average peak run off.  
http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/River/detail/id/210/
http://c2.com/kaweah/    Kaweah River Page has photos and info about the flood and about changes to the river.   
The Kings river hit 9,000 cfs on Oct 14 which is an average springtime peak run off, but it went from 200 cfs to 9,000 cfs in a few hours.  
http://www.dreamflows.com/graphs/mon.100.php    (this graph will only show this for 20 days or so)

Rivers all over the state were huge from this storm.   Does show that nature can have big fall releases if it wants to.   A lot of boaters got out to take advantage of these flows.  

The San Joaquin is entirely dam controlled, but the power companies save their annual maintainance till the fall when flows are generally the lowest.   One reservoir needed some work on the release gates, so instead of the usual 40 cfs, flows were fluctuating quite a bit in Patterson Bend.
http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/River/detail/id/288/  
http://www.dreamflows.com/graphs/mon.100.php  (graph is good for the next 20 days or so)
This CDEC plot might be a permanent link.
http://cdec.water.ca.gov/histPlot/DataPlotter.jsp?staid=sja&amp;sensor_no=20&amp;duration=E&amp;start=10%2F01%2F2009+16%3A27&amp;end=now&amp;geom=Medium
This CDEC plot indicates that flows hit 15,000 which is pretty amazing even to me.  Otherwise flows fluctuated up and down erratically sometimes as low as 100 or 200 cfs, sometimes as high as 3,800 cfs.   I boated it on a day when flows were somehow stable at about 1,200 cfs, but it could have changed at any moment.  Occasionally during the fall in the last few years this reach has gotten boatable flows for a few hours on unpredictable days.  Often those flows have been in the middle of the night.  
If I could negotiate for a recreational release on this reach, I would ask for flows of around 1,800 cfs on a few weekends, during the day, probably in the fall as that is when we would have the most likely hood of actually getting releases.  But that is 20 years down the road.   Maybe things will be different by then and the next person to work on this will have better ideas than I.  

Paul Martzen
Fresno, CA]]></description>
      <category>General Stewardship Discussion</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/16,16663,16775/#msg-16775</guid>
      <pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 20:36:47 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[General Stewardship Discussion] Re: Recreational releases and flow studies</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/16,16663,16771/#msg-16771</link>
      <author>haystacker</author>
      <description><![CDATA[I need to re-visit my previous post.

Though I am a member of SYRCL I am not their spokesperson. My statement is NOT to attributable to SYRCL. I shouldn't have used my membership as a platform to launch my personal opinion. I'm sorry for the inconvenient and unfortunate timing of my statement.]]></description>
      <category>General Stewardship Discussion</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/16,16663,16771/#msg-16771</guid>
      <pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:04:58 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[General Stewardship Discussion] Re: Recreational releases and flow studies</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/16,16663,16730/#msg-16730</link>
      <author>wwrafter</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Paul,
I agree that AW should be &quot;responsible stewards and advocates for healthy rivers&quot;.  I also understand that dams are largely under the control of power companies and flows occur as energy is needed.  Yes dam operators can and do release huge amounts of water seemingly at will sometimes. That doesnt make it ok.   In my time as a ww guide i have seen rivers double in flow over an hour or two from an accidental release or damaged equipment.  These are generally not healthy flushing/ morphological flows.  I think we can agree that rivers do need high flow events to maintain and create natural features, habitat and make things tough for invasive species.  
Just like with the greater water issues of the state, there is no easy fix to this issue.  I would love to have a variety of great boating opportunities year round but what is the cost to the environment?  I do commend AW for actively voicing their opinions and working to promote whitewater boating however i disagree with part of the mission.  I would like to see the focus on access to rivers, environmental stewardship and utilizing existing resources.  
Dams are a &quot;necessary evil&quot; and should be managed as near to natural conditions as feasible.  Yes I may sound idealistic but the status quo isnt working out so well.

Jeffrey Sanchez
Associate Hydrologist
Chico, CA]]></description>
      <category>General Stewardship Discussion</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/16,16663,16730/#msg-16730</guid>
      <pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:39:55 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[General Stewardship Discussion] Re: Recreational releases and flow studies</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/16,16663,16700/#msg-16700</link>
      <author>pmartzen</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Hello Ralph,  

I assume that you have already submitted your information about Canyon Creek to the resource agencies and to FERC.   Perhaps you have already argued endlessly with local AW representatives.   I don't think any recreational releases took place in 2009.   I imagine that your information carried considerable weight, especially if you have good evidence or it can be obtained by resource studies.  

I am not personally familiar with Fordyce or Canyon Creek, but I have tried to link good flow information to the AW web pages so it is easier to see what the flow patterns have been like on these reaches.  
http://americanwhitewater.org/content/River/detail/id/199/
http://americanwhitewater.org/content/River/detail/id/6363/
I assume you were talking about the Canyon Creek section from French Lake down to Bowman lake.  Dreamflows has records for most of the last 3 years and shows a few spikes at different times.  Looks like a lot of data is missing.  
http://www.dreamflows.com/graphs/yir.399.php  
It appears that none of the gauges on this reach other than dreamflows, show flows other than minimum releases.   There is no online historical data of spill flows on this reach.   So I have no way of knowing what kinds of spill patterns have occurred on this creek in the past.  

On Fordyce there is historical data and it appears to me that flows have fluctuated pretty wildly through out every year that I have looked at going back to the 1960's.   It seems pretty clear that these fluctuations are due to hydro operations and that recreational use is secondary and opportunistic.   AW has been successful in altering the release in the fall so it is more usable by boaters, but it appears that fall releases were occurring long before boaters discovered them.  

Paul Martzen
Fresno, CA]]></description>
      <category>General Stewardship Discussion</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/16,16663,16700/#msg-16700</guid>
      <pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 19:13:02 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[General Stewardship Discussion] Re: Recreational releases and flow studies</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/16,16663,16684/#msg-16684</link>
      <author>haystacker</author>
      <description><![CDATA[As an avid whitewater boater and fisherman, I cannot condone out of season pulse flows. The timing of this post is perfect. 4dice creek is a great boating and fishing creek. Right now should be the peak of fall dry fly fishing, but the insects are largely gone. All the surrounding creeks have great hatches but Fordyce is barren. The only logical explanation are the out of season pulse flows done this summer that entirely disrupt the normal life cycles of insects that have evolved for eons around low summer/fall flows and peak flows in the spring.

Last year Canyon Creek experienced the same phenomenae. Huge recreational pulse in September not only flushed the insect life but prematurely initiated the brown trout run up from the reservoir (they normally wait for the first rains which keep sustained higher flows). When the play days were done, and boaters gone, the creek was dropped to &quot;normal&quot; flows and the fish were sitting ducks to bear, otters, etc and the relative overpopulation of fish predispose them to diseases and lack of sufficient food (that had been blown out of the river).

Rivers DO need to be scrubbed, but in a way that mimick the natural hydrograph as much as possible. To promote anything otherwise is nothing but transparent and self-serving hype that makes AW look pretty hypocritical in the eyes of the environmental community.

Ralph Cutter
South Yuba River Citizen's League (SYRCL)
Nevada City, CA]]></description>
      <category>General Stewardship Discussion</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/16,16663,16684/#msg-16684</guid>
      <pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 12:33:20 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[General Stewardship Discussion] Re: Recreational releases and flow studies</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/16,16663,16669/#msg-16669</link>
      <author>pmartzen</author>
      <description><![CDATA[American Whitewater represents a wide range of river users, some of whom would prefer &quot;waterslides&quot; that can be turned on and off and many who believe pretty much as you do, that we should try to mimic natural flow regimes.    AW has to work closely with resource agencies to get anything done.  We want to be responsible stewards and advocates for healthy rivers.  

Flow study methods are evolving over time and we seem to be moving towards more opportunistic flow studies when that is possible.    With opportunistic studies we convince the dam operator to simply provide good flow information in the years leading up to relicensing.   This allows boaters to utilize and report on a range of flows as provided by normal dam operations during spill periods.   This should cost less and gives more boaters the opportunity to participate in the studies.   However, some reaches almost never see spills, or see such erratic spills that a more formal flow study is necessary to get moderate flows.  

One miss perception that I frequently run into, even from resource people, is the idea that whitewater flows are highly unusual and extreme events for dam controlled rivers.    My experience has been that flows needed by boaters are really small compared to the pulse flows and fluctuations common on many dam controlled rivers.  So for instance we argue that raising the flow in a river from 50 cfs up to 1500 cfs over a weekend and then back down is a horrible thing to do to certain fish.   We don't know for sure that it is, but it can be argued logically.    However, if the power company has a problem with a gate or a generator or has logs at the top of the dam that they want to dump, they might spill 10,000 cfs for an hour or two, and nobody accept me and AW will notice.   

If it is a big runnoff year, maybe flows will jump up to 20,000 cfs or so for a day or two, then drop way down, then jump back up for a few hours.   When spills end, they tend to end suddenly.   Go look at the hourly flow reports for any dam during spring spill to see what I mean.    On the other hand the conditions in natural runoff rivers can be pretty extreme and the aquatic denizens have evolved for those conditions.    We can ask the question about how much harm a 1,500 cfs flow causes to critters adapted to 10,000 cfs flows.   We should also ask the question about whether river critters benefit from periodic high flows.  We know that in natural regimes, high flows do benefit river animals in a variety of ways.    Higher flows tend to bring down more food and open up more habitat.  

When we propose boating flows on a reach, we always discuss a moderate ramping rate.   Because of our involvement and the obvious double standard, resource agencies are starting to ask for moderate ramping rates for other kinds of spill and release events.   Fishing and other environmental advocates are pushing for similar standards, especially when we work  together and listen to each others concerns.    However, even now, if the dam operator decides to go from 0 cfs to 5,000 or 10,000 or 30,000 cfs in a matter of minutes, that is what they will do.   It is much more common than you may realize.  

I think that most boating flow releases have far less impact than other common dam practices, however, by advocating for such releases we have forced studies that may give us much better understanding of river life in the long run.   AW frequently does not succeed in obtaining boating flow schedules.   Usually we are not turned back by environmental concerns but rather by forces that do not want any water flowing in a river when it could be flowing in a pipe.   When AW negotiations result in pulse flows it is always a compromise.   We would like to have natural flows in the river all the time, but we are there in numbers only on weekends.   The power companies and dam operators would like to have zero flow in the river so they can run it through their ditches and powerhouses.   (I am exaggerating.   They are mostly super decent people but they have different perspectives)    They compromise by giving us some water on the weekends.   We compromise by helping the resource agencies get higher minimum flows during the week at the expense of higher flows on the weekends.  

The frog egg issue which you allude to on the NF Feather is an example of a controversy which has actually lead to a longer term increase in flows rather than pulse flows.   Weekend boating releases were implemented for a year or two till an agency argued that frog eggs were being damaged, washed away or stranded.    My understanding is that there was and remains a debate about whether this damage was actually happening or to what extent.    A compromise was reached where a lower level of boatable flows is released for several weeks, with a gradual ramp up at the beginning of the period and a gradual ramp down at the end of the period.    The boatable flows are also less than the natural hydrograph for that time period.  

In summary, pulse and boating flows are compromises.   As we learn more about river ecology they may be used less or they might actually be used more but with better timing or ramping.   Whitewater boating releases are generally quite small compared to the erratic flow changes common to dam controlled rivers.    The attention that boaters and other river users are bringing to this will hopefully lead to long term improvements in how dams are operated.    

Paul Martzen]]></description>
      <category>General Stewardship Discussion</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/16,16663,16669/#msg-16669</guid>
      <pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:52:43 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[General Stewardship Discussion] Recreational releases and flow studies</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/16,16663,16663/#msg-16663</link>
      <author>wwrafter</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Whitewater is great, flow studies are not.  Pulse releases are akin to turning a firehose on a person and washing them off of the sidewalk-  the same thing happens to the bugs and fish that live in the river system.  Perfect example is the North Fork Feather- AW pushed for pulse flows for recreation only to learn that these flows were stranding frog eggs when the release ended.  
Instead of pushing for recreational pulse releases on pristine remote rivers, why can t paddlers hit those during naturally boatable periods and stick to the already impacted runs like the American or Tuolumne during the summer.  Should skiiers make snow in august cause they cant wait for real snow?  Boaters should be concerned that the rivers they know and love can be stripped of life by just a single out of season pulse of water released for a recreational study.  
I am not advocating against paddling, river conservation or access to padling opportunities.  I am advocating for better management of rivers, mimicking natural flow regimes and not &quot;waterslides&quot; turned on in july for recreation.
Please consider the health of the watersheds around you before you push for out of season flows for a single user group.]]></description>
      <category>General Stewardship Discussion</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/16,16663,16663/#msg-16663</guid>
      <pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 13:48:06 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[StreamTeam Forum] Re: Bugs: Reach length dissappearing --  Rapids alignment</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,16553,16595/#msg-16595</link>
      <author>rob</author>
      <description><![CDATA[A couple of comments about the 'work around' --

1) You need to make sure the description for the rapids is two lines (or more) when the rapids page is viewed in the regular browser. The pop-up WYSIWYG editor box (where you actually enter the description) will likely need to be at least three lines long in order for the resulting description to fill one line on the browser screen.

2) EACH and EVERY rapids down the list needs to have a description longer than one line (screen width), or the same problem will again arise.]]></description>
      <category>StreamTeam Forum</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,16553,16595/#msg-16595</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 11:14:20 -0400</pubDate>
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    <item>
      <title>[General American Whitewater] Planning my first whitewater trip</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/10,16560,16560/#msg-16560</link>
      <author>biglarry</author>
      <description><![CDATA[The girlfriend and I have been practicing on the Flatrock river in indiana and are looking forward to our first whitewater trip. We are planing to go down to the Elkhorn river this Saturday October 17th. We have recreational kayaks with touring skirts. 

Being that this is our first trip down an unfarmiliar river I was wondering if anyone in the area wanted to come to. Maybe point us in the right direction, and give us a few pointers. We were planning on drinking a few at one of the distileries or at the bar after the trip, so I'd be happy to buy a few beers as payment.

My email is 
ben.schwegman@yahoo.com  so drop me a line if your going

I'm not asking anyone to make a special trip, but if your going to be there anyway we would like to tag along.

Thanks in advance,

Ben]]></description>
      <category>General American Whitewater</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/10,16560,16560/#msg-16560</guid>
      <pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 16:43:52 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[StreamTeam Forum] Bugs: Reach length dissappearing --  Rapids alignment</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,16553,16553/#msg-16553</link>
      <author>pmartzen</author>
      <description><![CDATA[There are two bugs that stream editors should deal with until they get fixed.  

1)  There was a short period when editing a reach caused the reach length to disappear.   Ryan fixed this problem, but many recently edited reaches are probably missing the length now.  Stream teamers need to check their pages and add the distance back in if that information is missing.

2)  On some reaches with rapids listed on the rapids tab and photos associated with rapids, the alignment has gotten very goofy.   Basically photos and descriptions are out of alignment with the names of the rapids.  

This bug appears when you have a photo for a rapid, but the rapid description is very short. The photo aligns to the right and the next few names of rapids slide up next to the photo on the left.

There is a simple work around. Start with the first photo that is shifted to the right and add enough rapids description, so that the description takes up more than one line on the final display.  The description editing box is very narrow, so the description will have to be 3 or 4 lines there. When the description extends all the way across the page, the photo will be aligned properly all the way back to the left, forcing the subsequent rapids names to display properly below.   Proceed to the next misaligned photo and write a longer description for that one also.   Do the same for all the misaligned photos.]]></description>
      <category>StreamTeam Forum</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,16553,16553/#msg-16553</guid>
      <pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 13:47:20 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[StreamTeam Forum] Re: Adding USGS gage</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,16494,16520/#msg-16520</link>
      <author>matt</author>
      <description><![CDATA[[url=http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Gauge2/search-limited/]It's there![/url]
It's also linked in the [url=http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Gauge2/view/state/GA/]Georgia list[/url].]]></description>
      <category>StreamTeam Forum</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,16494,16520/#msg-16520</guid>
      <pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:52:25 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[StreamTeam Forum] Re: Questions about gauge list</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,15118,16503/#msg-16503</link>
      <author>pmartzen</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Here is an example of a CDEC gauge that has stage and cfs, but AW only shows stage.
http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/stationInfo?station_id=MSN

Looks like all California CDEC based gauges only show stage even though the originating gauges show both flow and stage.

USGS based AW gauges seem to show both flow and stage.

edit:  I have started a bug ticket for CDEC gauges.]]></description>
      <category>StreamTeam Forum</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,15118,16503/#msg-16503</guid>
      <pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 14:28:44 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[StreamTeam Forum] Adding USGS gage</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,16494,16494/#msg-16494</link>
      <author>ga_creeker</author>
      <description><![CDATA[How do you add a gage?  USGS has a new gage on the Chattooga for the Headwaters located at Burrells Ford.  This is the gage that will be used to regulate boating.

http://waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis/uv?02176930]]></description>
      <category>StreamTeam Forum</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/25,16494,16494/#msg-16494</guid>
      <pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:46:30 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[Gauley Festival] Re: Trail to Pillow Rock Viewing area</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/3,8778,16473/#msg-16473</link>
      <author>troyfultz</author>
      <description><![CDATA[thats one of the steepest trails ive ever been down]]></description>
      <category>Gauley Festival</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/3,8778,16473/#msg-16473</guid>
      <pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 09:48:26 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>[General Whitewater Safety Discussion] Boulder G'zone is not water resistant, what is?</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/21,16461,16461/#msg-16461</link>
      <author>Runargorun</author>
      <description><![CDATA[For safety reasons I like to keep a cell phone in my PFD and prefer a water resistant phone that requires minimal additional protection. I thought the Boulder G'zone through Verizon was the answer but it proves to fall short in every way. It's not really water-resistant and when I have talked to Verizon about my Boulder that drowned the first time it got wet they say 'Well, it's not THAT water-resistant...&quot;  I bought a second one to replace the drowned one and within months a flimsy part has broken off and it is now less water-resistant than an average phone. Verizon says it's all my fault.

Does anyone have a suggestion for the best cell phone to have on the water?]]></description>
      <category>General Whitewater Safety Discussion</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org//content/Forum/read/send/21,16461,16461/#msg-16461</guid>
      <pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 14:19:06 -0400</pubDate>
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