<?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1" ?>
<rss version="2.0">
  <channel>
    <title>BWA-Speak</title>
    <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/list/send/9/</link>
    <description><![CDATA[General BWA Message and Milling Area]]></description>
    <language>EN</language>
    <pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 02:35:27 -0400</pubDate>
    <lastBuildDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 02:35:27 -0400</lastBuildDate>
    <category>BWA-Speak</category>
    <generator>Phorum 5.1.23</generator>
    <ttl>600</ttl>
    <item>
      <title>Re: White Water Kayaks vs Surf Kayaks</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7162,7380/#msg-7380</link>
      <author>Powhoundus</author>
      <description><![CDATA[That's a really good article that explains the basic differences between the two basic designs. I actually almost bought a surf kayak last year .... was new and less than 1/2 price somewhere. Then I thought about it ... where would I use it? For the size of surf generally encountered in the Atlantic in season.... not counting hurricanes making landfall that just bring big nasty chop, not nice long carving waves.... I still say a playboat would be my boat of choice. Why? In a playboat I can carve pretty well on typical waves on the Atlantic, but I can also flat spin, surf backward and probably a bunch of other tricks once I learn how. With a dedicated surf design, all I could do is carve the wave ... pretty boring in weak / mushy surf. Now, if on the OTOH I was in the Pacific... whole different situation .... frequent large swells and big waves that tube for a potential long ride carving... all I would get there in a playboat is pounded!

Wes]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7162,7380/#msg-7380</guid>
      <pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 02:35:27 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Rolling, the eureka moment</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7371,7379/#msg-7379</link>
      <author>russellh</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Contest Entry for Russell Hampton

My eureka moment occurred upon realizing that out of all the new information the hip snap technique was the crux.  Properly executed you activate ONE knee to move the mass of your body from outside one rail to outside the opposite.  Poor setup, improper paddle placement, and even raising your head can be overcome by a flawless, powerful hip snap.]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7371,7379/#msg-7379</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:54:55 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Surf Report</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7162,7378/#msg-7378</link>
      <author>russellh</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Nice, that made perfect sense.  Can't wait to paddle the ocean.]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7162,7378/#msg-7378</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:28:31 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Rolling, the eureka moment</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7371,7377/#msg-7377</link>
      <author>kwildman</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Contest Entry for Kim Wildman

On the same evening, both Dale and Hanley explained how they used to roll 50-100 times, for many evenings in a row. The &quot;eureka moment&quot; was understanding that I needed more practice than a few successful rolls, one evening a week.]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7371,7377/#msg-7377</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:09:38 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>White Water Kayaks vs Surf Kayaks</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7162,7376/#msg-7376</link>
      <author>barry</author>
      <description><![CDATA[&quot;Similar But Not The Same&quot;

&quot;They may look similar...but are they? One might be inclined to think that a white water kayak and a surf kayak are interchangeable. Well yes...and no. Craft that have a similar look, in fact, perform quite differently when it comes to surfing ocean waves.&quot;

http://web.mac.com/king.laguna/SOPSA_/Similar.html]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7162,7376/#msg-7376</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 20:46:58 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>WV wrongful death lawsuit could be bad news for Rafting Industry</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7375,7375/#msg-7375</link>
      <author>barry</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Potential Industry Changing Events Unfolding in WV New
Forum: BoaterTalk
Date: Jul 03 2008, 1:13 GMT 
From: unclefuzzy 
		
FROM THE WSAZ WEBSITE:
CHARLESTON, W.Va. (AP) - The state Supreme Court will hear a case in September that could affect the future of West Virginia's rafting industry.

Lawyers for rafting outfitter River Riders Inc. want the high court to stop Jefferson County Circuit Court from proceeding with a case involving a fatal 2004 rafting accident on the Shenandoah River.

Circuit Judge Thomas Steptoe has consolidated a wrongful death lawsuit filed by Kathy Freeman, the widow of the man killed on the trip, and a personal injury lawsuit filed by other rafters. The trial is set for July 27.

Steptoe is allowing the case to be argued under maritime law, which means the rafting company couldn't use waivers the rafters signed in its defense. The company's lawyers say this precedent could have a crippling effect on the industry.

www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/22755024.html

www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2008/07/01/ap5174856.html

http://boatertalk.com/forum/messageframe.php?forumid=BoaterTalk&amp;mid=1510309]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7375,7375/#msg-7375</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 20:23:01 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Rolling, the eureka moment</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7371,7371/#msg-7371</link>
      <author>hanleyk1</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Hi folks, 

     Announcing a new contest sponsored by lifetime honorary BWA member Kent Ford. Kent read the portion of our rolling discussion that Don liberated for use in the Bowlines and came up with a suggestion. He is donating a copy of &quot;The Kayak Roll&quot; DVD as a prize. 

     The contest is geared toward persons who have either learned to roll in the last year or who have made significant improvement on a meager roll. Although I want to discourage old timers like myself, no BWA member will be barred from entering. To enter, try to come up with the most succinct and descriptive explanation of your &quot;eureka moment&quot; the little extra bit of information that made everything else fall into place. 

     Entries should be as short as possible. One sentence is good. but two or three is fine if that's what it takes. Entries will be printed on ballots at the August meeting and voted on by those present. 

     To enter, post your explanation here underneath the heading, &quot;Contest entry for John Doe&quot; (using your own name of course). Alternatively you can email your entry to me and I'll post it for you. 

     So come on all you novice boaters. Help your fellow novices and the new crop of up-and-comers out by passing on a little bite of wisdom. What was it for you that made it all come together?

                    Hanley]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7371,7371/#msg-7371</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 11:31:25 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Surf Report</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7162,7370/#msg-7370</link>
      <author>barry</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Russell,
Water shouldn't get into the hull unless you accidentally leave the port hole open for some reason and if you do then you can just drain it out via the same opening.

PS: Shark bait surfers are just jealous of kayakers cause we catch 3X more waves:-)]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7162,7370/#msg-7370</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:29:30 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: The Bombproof Roll?</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,6889,7369/#msg-7369</link>
      <author>hanleyk1</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Hey Wes,

     Yes, re-reading I see that although the exact wording of your opening sentence could be construed to include the sweep, that you are obviously not talking about the sweep. 

Russell, the advantage of throwing your face into the water as you're bracing up is that you are using your body to right your boat. You still need some paddle to arrest the progress of your body and allow you to come back up, but if you're experiencing a lot of shoulder stress on this move then you probably need to work on your technique.

                      Hanley]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,6889,7369/#msg-7369</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:27:17 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Surf Report</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7162,7368/#msg-7368</link>
      <author>russellh</author>
      <description><![CDATA[One other thing, is there anything I need to do to &quot;drain&quot; the malibu ii?  I'm just wondering (expecting) that maybe it's possible for water to get inside that plastic, if so how to drain it.]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7162,7368/#msg-7368</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:16:09 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Surf Report</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7162,7367/#msg-7367</link>
      <author>waveydavey</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Real men don't squat to surf!!  (:P)]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7162,7367/#msg-7367</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 07:52:24 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Appalachian Wilderness Medicine Conference</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7299,7366/#msg-7366</link>
      <author>jditty</author>
      <description><![CDATA[The student price is not only for WVU. It applies to other schools as well. 
Bring your boats if you come up this way, it's been a wet summer up here, thunderstorms rolling off the great lakes almost every evening when the wind is from the northwest.
Hope to see you there,
jay]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7299,7366/#msg-7366</guid>
      <pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 00:59:51 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: The Bombproof Roll?</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,6889,7365/#msg-7365</link>
      <author>Powhoundus</author>
      <description><![CDATA[No, it isn't dangerous if done correctly. Keeping the paddle in a safe position is very important. It will make your shoulder a bit sore ... because you are stressing the muscles, which is the whole point in order to strengthen them. If your rotator cuff is weak to begin with... relatively new to boating, then I can illustrate a few exercises to strengthen it before trying this dynamic load drill. I can show you how to do the drill safely and some rotator cuff strengthening exercises. I'll be there tonight

However, if your shoulder is sore after doing regular rolls, then you technique somewhere is probably a bit off ... unless you just haven't been doing much with your shoulders before learning to kayak and they are just weak... that is a possibility as well.

Going from C-C to sweep... I'm with ya brother... not easy. My C-C has been ingrained in my head since 1977.

Wes]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,6889,7365/#msg-7365</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 15:34:45 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Roll Sessions July 2nd and 9th</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7327,7364/#msg-7364</link>
      <author>hanleyk1</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Also, throwrope and knot basics at the pool tonight starting at 7:00 PM. Extra ropes available]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7327,7364/#msg-7364</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 15:34:33 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Rescue Throw Bag question</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7231,7363/#msg-7363</link>
      <author>Powhoundus</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Wow...sounds like another good example of when to throw a rope into a hole. What a close call! I'd rather be tangled in a mess of rope that's going to be pulled out  ... around my neck or not ... than terminal surfing 1st Drop! I think anyone that's actually been in that situation would agree! That is definitely not a good boat rescue option. Think the best move there is get to shore, grab the rope and throw it to the victim as fast as possible. I'm willing to bet that he responded to CPR because he had laryngospasm and could not breathe on his own initially because of that. I've experienced that ... scares the crap out of you... you are up and alert but air won't come in. We discussed this phenomenon last Fall as I recall after my Alien Boof surf.

Wes]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7231,7363/#msg-7363</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 15:14:40 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: The Bombproof Roll?</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,6889,7362/#msg-7362</link>
      <author>Powhoundus</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Brent, this sounds like what I call a Back Deck Rodeo Roll
Wes]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,6889,7362/#msg-7362</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 15:04:18 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Roll Sessions July 2nd and 9th</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7327,7359/#msg-7359</link>
      <author>ferdunerd</author>
      <description><![CDATA[There will be three newbies tonight-an adult and two 16 yo boys.  I'll bring two extra boats and skirts, one extra paddle.]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7327,7359/#msg-7359</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 14:29:29 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Surf Report</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7162,7358/#msg-7358</link>
      <author>Powhoundus</author>
      <description><![CDATA[My dad had a sit on top that I tried in the surf once a few years back... I had been out of boating for a while and only tried it for an hour or so... can't remember the brand but think it said &quot;Ocean Kayak&quot; on the side. Think I tried to roll it ... and couldn't. It felt really heavy to paddle ... very sluggish. It did catch waves and carve them well as I recall. At any rate, it was very different from my All Star. The play boat is ultra responsive and tracks / carves even better than the Fun and definitely better than the displacement hulls on the Phoenix Ocoee, Dancer, and Extra Jet I previously surfed in. Blasting the surf and spinning in the Jet were fun... but get a little water in there and I seriously had my hands full getting back in with the tail dragging the bottom! The short flat stern of the playboat settles in the foam pile just like a breaking river wave and the nose stays out of the green water (doesn't pearl) with no effort. With a displacement hull, and a bit with the Fun, I had to lean back to keep the nose out of the green as the wave was breaking, especially on bigger ones. As a matter of fact, when I go back later this month, I'm thinking in order to try to loop (if the waves are big enough), I'm going to have to hesitate at the top on the verge of catching / missing the wave then paddle hard to dive down at the moment of breaking to get my nose deep enough for a good &quot;pop&quot;. The All Star also flat spins much easier in the broken wave than the Fun. Admit though ... the legs don't get tanned, but when surfing I always wear a longsleeve hydrosilk top to keep from getting that PFD tan ;) Barry, I hope we can work something out for St Augustine this Fall ... bet the surf would be epic then. Think I'll try to contact the guys at Surf Station to see when the best months are historically for weather / waves.

Wes]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7162,7358/#msg-7358</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 13:22:03 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Surf Report</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7162,7356/#msg-7356</link>
      <author>russellh</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Great, ok.  I'll be hitting you up to borrow that tonight or tomorrow.  BTW I checked the map and the outer banks appear just north of the topsail island, so ... not that our paths will cross but I'll think of you as I look northward!  This whole area looks really cool with the nature of the ocean water meeting fresh water, don't know how possible it'll be but might be worth paddling around between the coast and the island, perhaps another reason the malibu will serve me better this trip.

Anyway, thanks again Barry!  Can't wait to try to surf some ocean waves.]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7162,7356/#msg-7356</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 12:04:42 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Surf Report</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7162,7355/#msg-7355</link>
      <author>barry</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Russell that's a pretty cool manual and although focused on sit-on-tops, the ideas and tips it contains for catching waves and the &quot;power pocket&quot;  are pretty universal - no matter what craft your surfing with.  

Surfing angles in the Malibu II are going to be identical to the angles for the 230 (and I suspect, even on a surf board for that matter). The &quot;power pocket&quot; is the curl of the wave and what pushes your boat (body or board) forward toward the beach. Actually, the techniques involved in paddling ocean waves are very similar - if not identical - to surfing river waves. In the ocean, you will still want to &quot;lean downstream&quot; and into the foam pile when on a side surf -  except that leaning downstream in the ocean means leaning away from the beach.

The Malibu II can be paddled and surfed by 1,2,or 3 (2 adults and a child) people although 2 people is really it's optimum number as you can really get up some speed catching and riding even the smallest of waves. The Malibu is of course a lot longer and heavier boat than the 230 and so will naturally be limited in it's ability to pull off loops, 360s and rocket moves vs the 230.  

Since you have not ever surfed in the ocean before (and very little on the rivers?) you may be more comfortable for your first time in a sit-on-top like the Malibu which will allow you to just fall (or jump:-) off of the boat when things go foamy. As the Malibu has drain holes, it will never fill up or need to be emptied out like a decked K1. In the 230 you will need a sprayskirt and if you flip you will have to either quickly roll or pull the sprayskirt loop and eject - and then have to empty the kayak of water on the beach. 

BTW, C6 and E6 both prefer the Malibu for ocean surfing as it also allows them  to get a tan on their legs while waiting for that next wave:-) 
barryg]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7162,7355/#msg-7355</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 11:55:08 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Appalachian Wilderness Medicine Conference</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7299,7354/#msg-7354</link>
      <author>jasonfoley</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Jay i am interested in the but have a question.  Does the student discount only cover WVU students or could an EKU slacker get in for that price?

Started working on my Wilderness EMT but havent had enough time to get everything in line for me to complete it.  I am a WFR it it makes any difference.]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7299,7354/#msg-7354</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 11:40:26 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Appalachian Wilderness Medicine Conference</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7299,7353/#msg-7353</link>
      <author>desertrat</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Sent email expressing interest...lets throw this out there at next Tuesdays meeting.  I would like to at least attend the saturday classes, but could potentially do all 3 days depending on finances.

Brandon]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7299,7353/#msg-7353</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 10:58:45 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Surf Report</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7162,7352/#msg-7352</link>
      <author>russellh</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Hey barry, I was reading this [url=http://www.sit-on-topkayaking.com/Articles/SurfSail/SurfBCU.html]manual re ocean surfing[/url] in kayaks and really didn't have much to go on in terms of what to expect with the two crafts.  As you mentioned the 230 will likely allow me to do far more &quot;tricks&quot; assuming I could even pull them off.  But I think as long as the malibu II will allow me to catch a &quot;power pocket&quot; and ride it I'm fine with that.  Do you know if the malibu II will surf at an angle along with the collapsing wave?  Or is it pretty much perpendicular with the breaking waves?  I'm torn b/w what I think is more challenging (i230) and what is more likely I'll have fun in (your boat)

TIA!]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7162,7352/#msg-7352</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 10:56:52 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Forum Email</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7340,7350/#msg-7350</link>
      <author>barry</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Enabling group email allows you to receive all posts made to the forum.]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7340,7350/#msg-7350</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 10:46:31 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: The Bombproof Roll?</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,6889,7349/#msg-7349</link>
      <author>russellh</author>
      <description><![CDATA[[quote]It's also a great rotator cuff workout![/quote]
Is that to say it's dangerous or damaging?  I want to be clear b/c I noticed those muscles covering my scapula were quite sore for two days after last pool session.  I had slight shoulder pain but I assumed this was caused by the bad sweep roll technique.

You know reading that shoulder article recently posted and thinking about the face-in-the-water-brace exercise, I don't see how I could have been keeping my hands below my head if my face was in the water and I was bracing off the top.  Perhaps I shouldn't do that anymore...]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,6889,7349/#msg-7349</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 10:35:47 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: The Bombproof Roll?</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,6889,7348/#msg-7348</link>
      <author>russellh</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Yes that's exactly what we were doing Hanley.  It was great to experience that as an option to the full-on setup roll deal.  It made me realize the the whole kayak is rightside up or upside down was not in fact a binary proposal, but instead analog, spanning the entire spectrum between up and down with areas where you're still in control.  Prior to performing this with Fred I had really just thought about kayaking as I'm either UP or DOWN, not really realizing there's still plenty of options when you're in between.  I was reminded of watching Dane on those videos at the NPFF this year where he was surfing some stuff and flipping around and everything and I was thinking &quot;man it's just like water with him.  He's never concerned with what orientation his boat is in really, he just goes where he wants to go.&quot;  That's control!  He really makes it look like the boat is merely an extension of his body, something he works with to accomplish whatever he wants to do versus something he's &quot;in control of&quot; or something he is fighting with.  He just goes with the flow fo sho fo sho.  I'm excited about being that fluid with my control, although I realize I've still lots of work to do.

RE the sweep-roll.  The C-to-C roll (brace roll) was the first I learned (thanks Hanley).  I've purchased and watched tens of times now the video Dale recommends called the Kayak Roll.  In that video they solely focus on the sweep roll.  I realized last wednesday I'm really still doing a C-to-C versus a sweep when I'm trying to do my sweep roll.  After setup the sweep roll involves only torso rotation, period.  There's no brace stroke at the end, which is what I have been doing.  One thing I'll say is it kinda hurts my shoulder when I do that wrong b/c I'm basically bracing after my paddle is almost to my stern deck, not a good point to put pressure on your shoulder as it feels to me.  As I imagine it the sweep roll is gonna feel like magic, like I just magically rolled up, can't wait to hit it.]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,6889,7348/#msg-7348</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 10:31:54 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: The Bombproof Roll?</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,6889,7347/#msg-7347</link>
      <author>Powhoundus</author>
      <description><![CDATA[If I was unclear, thanks for pointing it out Hanley. I know that a sweep roll is not a back deck roll! Don't think that's what I implied, though maybe I wasn't clear. What I meant was that on failed sweep roll, you typically are back, not tucked when you head back over. At that point, a quick back deck roll ... even before you are back over all the way, or a quick back deep brace (to the back deck) or a quick C-C may be quicker means of getting upright than retucking and setting up for another sweep roll. Or you can do the C-boat roll finish and maybe save the roll.
And I figured it was some sort of extended, strong or deep brace they were practicing and not a back deck roll as Dorothy thought. As taught in I think Kayaking Tools, maybe others, throwing your body low and snapping the boat back up is a more powerful brace than keeping your body upright and bracing. It's also a great rotator cuff workout! I do this drill where I fling the boat hard over and deep brace back up ... side to side til my shoulders are sore...
Wes]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,6889,7347/#msg-7347</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 10:29:58 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: The Bombproof Roll?</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,6889,7346/#msg-7346</link>
      <author>brentaustin</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Hanley:
Hmmm, that might be different than what I used to try as a &quot;back deck roll&quot; which I was trying to mimick as I saw it first started being done by then kids like Chris Hipgrave that I paddled with a lot in the mid 90s.  I would basically try to roll by essentially diving backwards on my stern and coming up on a LOW brace.  Is that what you are talking about?  I never was very good at it, but, it reminded me of the motion in a hand roll a bit except coming up on a low brace rather than slapping the water in a hand roll with high brace motions.
Brent]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,6889,7346/#msg-7346</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 10:28:59 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Appalachian Wilderness Medicine Conference</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7299,7345/#msg-7345</link>
      <author>brentaustin</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Jay:  Not sure I can make it or not.  But, we met at the SC last night and may fund our member at large officer, Brandon, to make a day trip.  He will be contacting you I think.
Brent]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7299,7345/#msg-7345</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 10:20:05 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Forum Email</title>
      <link>http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7340,7344/#msg-7344</link>
      <author>leachman</author>
      <description><![CDATA[Thanks b6.  

After I turn the Enable automatic group emails: ON Can I limit this to only recieving Steering Committe update emails?]]></description>
      <category>BWA-Speak</category>
      <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Forum/read/send/9,7340,7344/#msg-7344</guid>
      <pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 10:17:06 -0400</pubDate>
    </item>
  </channel>
</rss>
